Character Growth (Protagonist)

I think this is most-important for Protagonist-- other characters will or will not exhibit character growth based specifically on interactions with Protagonist, and problems they have will be solved when Protag says, "nah, that's stupid".

But Protagonist's character growth, more than anyone else's, has to be organic. She has to think something, and be proven wrong. This will help us to realize the plot and the theme.

To start, I was thinking something like "doesn't believe in true love".

This is a little bit hackneyed, so I'm open to other suggestions.

But it makes sense to me, considering you really get to breed whatever two ghosts together you want-- it doesn't matter, there's no true love.

Then there's a bit at the end where Blondie gets eaten by ghosts to save GGF (which I don't remember if that actually happens) and then it's like "WHOA IT MUST HAVE BEEN BECAUSE SOMETHING SOMETHING."

Truly_An_Cat wrote:I think this is most-important for Protagonist-- other characters will or will not exhibit character growth based specifically on interactions with Protagonist, and problems they have will be solved when Protag says, "nah, that's stupid".

Why will the problems be solved when she says 'nah thats stupid'?
It seems more like saying that will cause the other characters to work it out on their own, without having any character growth and sticking to their basic selves.

Truly_An_Cat wrote:But Protagonist's character growth, more than anyone else's, has to be organic. She has to think something, and be proven wrong. This will help us to realize the plot and the theme.

Okay, so, we can't really give her physical traits, but we have to give her ideals?
I mean, thats okay with me, but we might need to develop Protag a little more if we're going to do that.

Truly_An_Cat wrote:To start, I was thinking something like "doesn't believe in true love".

This is a little bit hackneyed, so I'm open to other suggestions.

But it makes sense to me, considering you really get to breed whatever two ghosts together you want-- it doesn't matter, there's no true love.

Then there's a bit at the end where Blondie gets eaten by ghosts to save GGF (which I don't remember if that actually happens) and then it's like "WHOA IT MUST HAVE BEEN BECAUSE SOMETHING SOMETHING."

Sure, that seems like some idea she would develop over time spent hanging out with GGF and Blondie, especially in their route, anyway.
I read that and included that in the outline I posted, a scene where Protag and blondie discuss whether the pairing is inconsequential.

Charlie and the Boss's route might be something more to do with "follow your mind, your heart leads you astray"
Since their track is riddled with choices between following rules and conventions, everything seems to go the best if you stick to the game plan. Even Charlie and the Boss themselves seem to follow their minds and be much more practical rather than emotional.

But then, when things DONT go to plan, following the rules means ending up losing people, and then its like "WOAH, MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO THEIR EMOTIONS SOMETHING SOMETHING"

...Maybe it would work like that, but I meant some belief/ideals she has from the very beginning, that change over time.

For an example of "Protagonist tells [other character] they're wrong; Character Growth!", Consider the episode where grape pony tells apple pony to do less work. apply pony goes "ok" and agrees to be wrong, then learns to do less work.

So, we're trying to make the protagonist be the direct cause of the change in the other characters? I mean, straight lines are nice and simple, and make the player feel like they're having an effect, I suppose. But it just seems a little /too/ straightforwards to do cause and effect in that way? As if we're giving protag the power of 'being right', which, imo, she probably shouldn't have, since she has less experience in life and probably the situations in general, than the other characters.

These kind of things though, if we put them in the first part, would either have to be situations which happen and need to be relearned later no matter what choices the player makes (wow apple pony), or things which never really pop up again. Or, they could be alluded to in the first half, but actually explored in the second half, where I have to worry a lot less about plotline/character development storyline contradictions.

we discussed this a bit, but maybe it's not so much that she changes them, but that they have a different reaction.

Other times, maybe this is part of the decisions she makes in the living characters' lives.

For example, Charlie (or even the Boss) being frustrated by something and being in the same room-- not really seeking her out, but asking for her advice, since she's new and has a fresh perspective on everything.

Yeah, to have conflicting world views is a nice cause of minor conflict, so having them not always just agree with her like little nodding clones is good, imo.

I can see how character growth would be a part of the decisions she would make in the living characters lives. Do you mean it in that way? Do you mean for it to occur on the smaller scale at first, like the example you mentioned above, and then teach larger lessons at the end? Or to be roughly even. To be honest, especially in the early stages of the game, I can't see any of the characters asking for her help or advice on topics. I mean, people don't just openly ask stranger newbies for tips. But I guess, if she's a jerk, we can have options for her to just obnoxiously blurt out what she thinks they should be doing, or smirk to herself and watch them struggle without offering help?

The way I see it, choosing different word options is going to enlighten the character on conflicting or agreeing world views; then hers, or theirs, changing in the second half of the game?

Also, did you mention something about having it in three parts instead of two?
I could divide it up differently so that its structured more that way, or we could add more in the middle?
I mean, the outline is pretty simple at the moment, but its probably still quite a large amount of writing.

We really, really need to have a plot.

Or several plots. That's all. I, personally, won't be able to divide it up into parts until after we've planned that out.

[EDIT]

Also, they'll ask her because they work with her.

Also, I mean it in whatever way is positive, because I don't have the brains to quite grasp your question. Both big and small parts are good.

Okay, fair enough.
I meant the difference between 'minor' lessons and conflicts, and like, 'overall' lessons. Its difficult to explain, I guess.

So.... you don't think we have a plot/s at the moment?
Think about other otome games or visual novels you may have played- do they have an obvious overall plot, or do things simply get more complicated and emotional as time goes on? I mean, some games I've played have both, or one or the other, so I suppose its probably a personal preference. Visual novels tend to have more plot, but then sometimes the character interactions feel contrived, while the downside to otome is that you can get a lot of meaningless interactions and it can get slow simply 'hanging out' with the characters in the game.
Ah...I forgot where I was going with this- ah! Plot!
Like, I put up an outline, as an attempt at showing some sort of plot and development. Do you want to build on that or tear it down or do something with it?