Questions for you all

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Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:23 am

In lieu of failing to have a group meeting today and possibly ever
I'd like it if everyone attempt to answer these questions.

CHARACTER
What traits about characters makes you interested in them?

Can we incorporate those into our character designs?

Are you happy with the character concepts so far?
(Freya, Charlie, Blondie, Boss, Protag, GG) If not, why?

What about the secondary characters/ghosts?

Do you think you could write 'in character' for these characters? Pick one and try.

OTHER

What time scales do you have on this project? Can you keep to task deadlines?
Personally I want it done by December, so I'm going to be asking for things from each of you soon.

Do you have suggestions or comments for music?

Do you have suggestions or comments for backgrounds?

What do you want the user interface to look like? (load, save, exit buttons, dialogue and nametag)

Have you spotted anyone who could do character art?

STORYLINE
What scenarios do you find interesting or do you think would be funny to play out?

What keeps you interested in a game, and makes you pay attention?
Can we make this happen? How often would you want it to happen?

Length of chapters = 20 mins @ reading speed about 150 wpm. Therefore, we're looking at 3000 words per chapter. Is this ok?

How are we going to write this? Who is going to write it?
In the forum? Rapid RP? In groups? In chunks by different authors?

Based on the answers to questions so far, what are we going to write? --Begin trying to figure out chapters and their events.
((This last question was intended to go for a very long discussion that I wasn't sure how to break into question chunks, so please begin rambling at this point if you have any opinion whatsoever))
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Sinister Broadcast on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:12 am

CHARACTER
What traits about characters makes you interested in them?
Just characters in general? I don't think there's anything in particular that I like about characters, so long as they are logical and well rounded.
Can we incorporate those into our character designs?
I should hope so, or we may be in trouble.
Are you happy with the character concepts so far?
(Freya, Charlie, Blondie, Boss, Protag, GG) If not, why?
So far, yeah, they're coming along quite well. They have a lot of promise and seem to be quite logical in design. (Ie. None are those perfect, barbie doll styled characters, they have their good points and their flaws)
What about the secondary characters/ghosts?
I haven't seen too many of the designs for the ghosts, perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places..........
Do you think you could write 'in character' for these characters? Pick one and try.
I most likely could, I'd need a little more about them to be able to do a really good job of it, but what we have now does give a good basic idea of their mannerisms.

OTHER
What time scales do you have on this project? Can you keep to task deadlines?
Personally I want it done by December, so I'm going to be asking for things from each of you soon.
I don't really have any, I'm mostly here to help out where help is needed so just give me a job and a deadline and I'll see what I can do.
Do you have suggestions or comments for music?
Ummmmmm, preferably nothing like Justin Bieber, Selena Gomez or anything like that.................
Do you have suggestions or comments for backgrounds?
Nope, surprise me. Very Happy 
What do you want the user interface to look like? (load, save, exit buttons, dialogue and nametag)
I have no idea, I don't know too much about games like this so that part's pretty much up to you all.
Have you spotted anyone who could do character art?
Errrrr, I don't know too many. I can do basic artwork, but I have a difficult time with the base. After that I'm fine.

STORYLINE
What scenarios do you find interesting or do you think would be funny to play out?
I'd have to wait until after we get the basic plan out for the whole thing before I can come up with ideas for this.
What keeps you interested in a game, and makes you pay attention?
Can we make this happen? How often would you want it to happen?
Good graphics, straightforward plot, feeling like I'm actually getting somewhere with it.
Length of chapters = 20 mins @ reading speed about 150 wpm. Therefore, we're looking at 3000 words per chapter. Is this ok?
Sounds logical to me.
How are we going to write this? Who is going to write it?
In the forum? Rapid RP? In groups? In chunks by different authors?
Ummmm, I think first we need to decided what happens per chapter, then after that maybe it would make sense for each person to pick a character that they will stick with. That way we can be sure that there will be no variation on speech patterns and attitude. Like, you know exactly what all needs to be said, so then each person types in how their characters would say it, then put it all together and make sure everything blends. Though, I don't know if that would get too confusing.
Based on the answers to questions so far, what are we going to write? --Begin trying to figure out chapters and their events.
((This last question was intended to go for a very long discussion that I wasn't sure how to break into question chunks, so please begin rambling at this point if you have any opinion whatsoever))
I think first we need to figure out how many chapters there will be, then what happens in each chapter. I'm a planner by nature so I can't think straight till I can see a straight line from the beginning to the end.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:44 am

Cool thanks man.
I'm happy with the idea of each taking a character for continuity, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Like, you know exactly what all needs to be said, so then each person types in how their characters would say it, then put it all together and make sure everything blends." Does that mean we would write scripts separately, for each character, then blend them?

There definately needs to be more storyline planning, but we can't get bogged down with details. Having plot points enough so that we can connect the dots is all I reckon we require?

On the backgrounds topic, did you know I've converted one of your photos from deviant art into a background already? Check the WIP subforum if you havent seen it. ;D

I was thinking, the chapters should be unlockable from a main starting screen, which will probably make players feel as if they are 'getting somewhere' as they become unlocked. I was also considering having a way to get to/admire the ending illustrations without playing through the whole thing again (be able to access the ones you have unlocked via the menu screen, as is typical in VN otome type games), but... ending illustrations are a thing that may not be going to happen, given the art situation at this stage. We'll see what happens with that.

How should we plan the chapters? With dot points and lists? With an excel spreadsheet or word doc. ? I mean, I already attempted some sort of a chapter plot point skeleton (with extremely bare bones). Was that along the right lines, and easily interpretable?
Thing is, I write a lot, and read a lot, and, uh, I don't want to make you guys bored if you don't like huge walls of text, but I'm not really sure how to plan and discuss an hour (minimum) of gameplay in any sort of way that DOESN'T end up looking huge.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Sinister Broadcast on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:10 am

Yeah, I wrote that a little strange, didn't I? Ummm, mostly what I mean is, make sure we know what the basic dialogue is for the scene, each of us goes and writes our part of the conversation, then meet up and put it all together. I mostly suggest this since we never seem to all be online at the same time, so we pretty much end up doing our part on our own anyways.

Yeah, we don't need all of the details, but I think it'll be easier if we have a step by step of the basic happenings in each chapter.

Really? I'll go check that out right now!!! (Edit: OMG you did the church cemetery!! That's actually amazing!!! -geeks in corner-)

I don't think they should be able to see the end illustration till they get there, since it would seem like a bit of a spoiler, don't you think? But it would be cool to unlock each chapter as you go. I'm sure we'll find a way to get all of the character art done, there has to be an artist somewhere who can help us out with that. Why not put thread on MCL like"Looking For Artist" and tell them what we need, I'm sure someone will step up to the plate.

Well, when I plan stuff like this out, I usually do something like this:


Chapter 1: Blah, Blah, Blah... (Title)
- Blah, Blah, Blah... (What Happens First)
- Blah, Blah, Blah... (What Happens Second)

Chapter 2: Blah, Blah, Blah... (Title)
- Blah, Blah, Blah... (What Happens First)
- Blah, Blah, Blah... (What Happens Second)

Chapter 3: Blah, Blah, Blah... (Title)
- Blah, Blah, Blah... (What Happens First)
- Blah, Blah, Blah... (What Happens Second)
So on and so forth till the ending


After that, I go back and figure out more of the details.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Truly_An_Cat on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:25 pm

Sinister Broadcast wrote:CHARACTER
What traits about characters makes you interested in them?
Just characters in general? I don't think there's anything in particular that I like about characters, so long as they are logical and well rounded.
Can we incorporate those into our character designs?
I should hope so, or we may be in trouble.
Are you happy with the character concepts so far?
(Freya, Charlie, Blondie, Boss, Protag, GG) If not, why?
So far, yeah, they're coming along quite well. They have a lot of promise and seem to be quite logical in design. (Ie. None are those perfect, barbie doll styled characters, they have their good points and their flaws)
What about the secondary characters/ghosts?
I haven't seen too many of the designs for the ghosts, perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places..........
Do you think you could write 'in character' for these characters? Pick one and try.
I most likely could, I'd need a little more about them to be able to do a really good job of it, but what we have now does give a good basic idea of their mannerisms.
[/quote]See, that's interesting. I'm more into starting with flat, one-trait characters, and rounding them during character arcs. Like, if you choose one path, you learn stuff about a couple of characters, and all the other characters stay flat and one-dimensional.
The ghosts, particuarly, should all be flat, un-rounded characters, because they'll only be on-screen for a very short amount of time. They need to be very strong, without much nuance.

Also, I'm not sure how you've picked up on their mannerisms or know how to write them when you've just got things like, "he lives with his aunt". Since we're missing a story on most of these characters, I don't feel like we should develop them any further.

It's frustrating to me.

Also, I myself am not fully happy with the profiles (partially for that reason), but I can't seem to articulate how I want them corrected.

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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Truly_An_Cat on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:26 pm

Sinister Broadcast wrote:
Yeah, we don't need all of the details, but I think it'll be easier if we have a step by step of the basic happenings in each chapter.
Also, this.

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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:54 pm

Truly, I sorta meant for you to answer all those questions too...
I agree with the ghosts needing to be stereotypical/easy to understand/obvious character designs.
Please try to express where the profiles have gone wrong. The words 'mary sue' can be thrown in if you think that the characters are /too/ flexible and well rounded, and I would understand that.
If you've got a problem, you've got to help us sort it out.

Sinister, ee! I'm glad you like it~
Of course the end illustrations won't unlock until you have actually played through them. That'll probably encourage replaying, because people like to have all of the pictures unlocked. Well, I know I do, because I'm a completionist, haha.
The thing about MCL artists is that most of them are pretty fairweather, ie. they don't stick around. I'll put a notice up there next week though, because there's no harm in askin'.

I'll try out the chapter thing, in the format you guys describe.
I'm slightly frustrated at saying 'we need an outline!' when I've already put up the beginnings of an outline and people didn't seem to understand it...?
http://ghostdod.forumotion.com/t7-lets-do-plot-things
However, it is obviously incomplete, and too vague, and I didn't manage to write it all the way to the end so it just appeared mediocre and pointless. Hm.
I'll work on writing... a more complete looking one... When I finish the current background art...
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by SpiderLondon on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:08 pm

You can have me write, Itchi. I ain't doing much, just watching all the topics
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:12 pm

Sure, go ahead London. I'll have you write a skeleton outline thingy.
I'd like to see what you come up with.
Cool 
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by SpiderLondon on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:13 pm

Skeleton for profiles, right?
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:22 pm

Heheh
Nope
We already have a character skeleton for profiles, you've used it to make a character, remember? Or perhaps you meant you will fill in the skeleton and make some more charries?

I meant the skeleton for the whole story- ie. what they've been talking about.
See above.

But I was bein' cruel. Heheh.
Thats too much work to give youuuuuu~
And who knows how it would turn out if you haven't read all the threads =w="
I mean, if you wanna make an outline for the whole story, you can, but I was just tryin' to turn your vague volunteering against you, and give you the most frustrating job ;D
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by SpiderLondon on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:23 pm

Nah, I'll just read everything tomorrow then make one up.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Truly_An_Cat on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:40 am

Itchigotchi wrote:
Of course the end illustrations won't unlock until you have actually played through them.


...what "ending illustrations"?
Sad((((

I am pissed off everytime during MCL I'm interrupted by the picture of that stupid dog. Like, three fucking times, "Look at this dog, pls".

What ending illustrations?
I disagree that chapters should be unlockable from main menu, unless it's very hard to code in a game-save function. In order to get all the endings, you have to go through the game and make different choices, not just backtrack to the closest chapter-- are you actually breaking it up into chapters...? I thought it was more of a term for ease of writing-- you write or code or illustrate, one "chapter," one path, at a time. Or, I guess I've even seen games that are broken into "chapters", but the chapters are like "spring, summer, autumn winter", and the paths don't begin or end at those chapter points-- they're just for show, to keep the story from becoming monotonous.

I will... I will eventually answer the questions, I guess. I'm just sort of getting disheartened because we're going out and doing things like Itchigotchi is saying she'll go to MCL and put an ad out for a game artist. I think that's a horrible idea:
-the people on MCL are, as you said, generally unreliable.
-the artists on MCL are, with very few exceptions, lousy. In my opinion. No point in sugar-coating it.
-we're not ready for an artist. I haven't actually stopped Itchigotchi from making backgrounds because she seems to enjoy it, but just making backgrounds and hoping we use them is kind of like writing that ghost Miu Otaku dies on her grandmother's birthday. We don't know what we need drawn yet, characters, poses, expressions. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Instead, let's get the story outline(s) produced and begin writing.


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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Truly_An_Cat on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:43 am

And also, I'll point out that I thought your outline was a sketch-- because a lot of it went way outside what I expected, what I thought was going on. I really just took it as an example, not a prototype.

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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:03 am

Ending illustrations as in, the pictures at the end of the branch or chapter.
Which I've now decided we won't have, so don't stress about it. Its too much trouble.

Save game coding is easy.
It was even in the stupid tiny demo thing. You can save at any time.
I won't do the menu chapters. I don't know how I would reset values if somebody began playing from halfway through, anyway.
Chapters will break it up, but we don't need to make them obvious in the actual game-play.

A 'good artist' may be as difficult for you to express as a good character concept, so I don't expect you to clarify. Have you found anyone on tumblr? Did you end up looking or contacting anyone there? Its been weeks since you said you'd look. London can verify I tried asking a few people from Gaia, but they didn't log in again, or I decided their art was too low quality.
Do you realize it sounds like you're getting crappy about the possibility of me asking the very same website for help that I found YOU and Sinister from? Sure, you can get crappy if we found a new artist and they did disappear, in fact, you can feel smug about it, but I don't understand being disheartened by the /possibility/ of /asking/.

If I'm doing pointless things, tell me directly and I'll direct my energy elsewhere.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Truly_An_Cat on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:22 am

Itchigotchi wrote:Do you realize it sounds like you're getting crappy about the possibility of me asking the very same website for help that I found YOU and Sinister from? Sure, you can get crappy if we found a new artist and they did disappear, in fact, you can feel smug about it, but I don't understand being disheartened by the /possibility/ of /asking/.

If I'm doing pointless things, tell me directly and I'll direct my energy elsewhere.
I'm well aware. Consider, this is also where we picked up, uh... Enriku. Who, I suppose, was my pick, so shame on me.

MCL is going to be full of the people who gather to play a lazily written and lazily illustrated dating game, where the wrong colour of shirt will expose your breasts, and you can go on such thrilling dates as "Stand around in the library". I don't have a lot of faith in it's fandom and I think it'd be foolish for you to-- for any of you, actually. Case by case basis, if you want, but it is far from my first choice to go fishing for artists, or publishing open invitation.

And no, I haven't gone back to tumblr, which is my first choice. I think I told you why-- on one hand, I don't want to make a new account on every site, just for this project; on the other hand, I'm apprehensive about using my regular account because it's primary function was to reblog porn and I don't want to put anybody off.
But: I don't think we're at a stage to need an artist yet. As in, "let's get our shit in order, and then look for an artist." I'm disheartened about asking, because from my POV, you guys are saying, "let's get an artist, then make them sit around for weeks before we have anything for them to do" (or, "make them redo stuff every time we make a change").

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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:43 pm

Eh, no shame. We learnt from that and are obviously determined not to make the same mistake. The only redeeming thing about MCL artist searching is that they're free, hehh hehh.

We already have at least two characters for an artist to work on, whose details seem to be solidifying - certainly enough for someone to do a concept picture.
Even one character is a fair deal of work, regardless of what we're going to put in the story; we're going to need a neutral expression, a friendly expression, a thinking expression, an upset/annoyed/displeased expression, at the very least, no matter what dialogue we have in store for them. If we got an artist, I wouldn't want to make them sit around for weeks while we faff about bickering about details either.

I forgot about the tumblr thing x'D
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:27 am

Sooooooo London, hows that outline goin'? >w>"
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by SpiderLondon on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:29 am

....wasn't sure if you wanted me to do it or not.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:37 am

Yes!
I'm sorry I didn't make that clear- I thought you were going to read the stuffs and write one up, regardless of my response. Eheh, miscommunication on my behalf, I'm afraid.
So yeah~
I'm keen to see a plotline skeleton from you, and have something to edit and build from *grin*
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by SpiderLondon on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:38 am

=w= Ay.
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:23 pm

Ay?
Aye.

It's a lot of reading though, so if you feel lost just ask
Or I can draw one up within the next week if you're busy, because idk when your holidays end :/
And I've got a feeling I'm not as far down on the scale of lazy as I was last week ~
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by SpiderLondon on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:24 pm

my holidays end in a month. i have time
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Itchigotchi on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:27 am

Sooo.....hows that outline goin'?
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Re: Questions for you all

Post by Truly_An_Cat on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:26 pm

>_>


...has anypony else given Protagonist a nickname in their head?
I have a headcanon name for Protagonist now but I've been doing my best to avoid using it here.

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